
Interview // 2021-10-27
Heretoir
Heretoir is an emotional, yet comforting walk through ambient and harsh music. For me, they are a new discovery. The atmosphere caught my attention and thereafter so did the attitude of the musicians - a humble group of people. If you haven't heard them, have a listen! I talked to Nils Groth, the drummer, about some aspects of his musical journey.
You are a new member of Heretoir. I know some of you played together in King Apathy. I am wondering, is that when you met the other members, or did you guys already know each other?
NILS GROTH: We actually met two years before I joined Thranenkind, which was renamed King Apathy. When I played a show with my old black metal band and Heretoir was playing the first show there, then we just got in contact. First, we became friends and then I started singing in Thranenkind. In 2011 or 2012 I recorded session drums for Substanz, the record, it is the re-recording of the old demo of Heretoir. It took four more years. I joined in 2017 because I had just went out of one of my other bands, and then I got some more time and I was able to join Heretoir.
My understanding is that David took care of music composition, overall in the past. He often programmed drums, but it sounds like you are helping with drum beats now, and he is making the songs around that. So, what kind of changes to new material do you bring?
NILS: Yes, you are totally right. David writes all of the music. Years ago, a drummer that was a friend of ours, he bought some drum patterns he recorded at home, not with programmed drums but with patterns that another drummer did. With new songs for the album that will be out, the drums are recorded, the rest I don't know. I step away from naming a time when the album will come out because there is so much happening. So there is no date yet, but it worked kind of the way that you mentioned. David wrote the songs with accessing drum patterns. Here and there I sent him a drum pattern and then he worked around it. But most of it, I just listened to his songs and then I looked at if I liked what he did there or if I disliked it. Most of the time, I really like what he does because he has a really good feel for drumming. Even though he is not a drummer and he can't play a single beat properly, he really knows how drum parts and patterns can work in a song. Most changes that I made were fill-ins here, and there a special beat, or having a different double-bass pattern that he has in mind, or something like that.
I saw a video of you and David talking, just over a year ago, about the new material. There was a little sneak peak. I was going to ask you how much progress has been made. I know you don't have an actual date.
NILS: The video that we released was from a pre-production. I am very happy that at my parent's place we have a very small recording studio, so for pre-production I can go there. That is the place where I recorded really, really rough drummings, just to have a little snack for the people out there that are asking for new material. As I mentioned the drums are recorded for the album, but especially with Corona hitting, and a lot of things that happened in our social lives and our private lives, we agreed on putting it as low as it needs to be at the moment, and the album will be out when it is out. All the songs are written for the album, drums are recorded, so. The thing with this band is we aren't professional; like, we aren't living off the music. We all have our day jobs, we have our families. I think many bands can relate to that. Most of us also have other bands apart from Heretoir. So there is a lot of stuff that is going on. We really try to take off the pressure. And just delivering the album when it's done. I think it is the most healthy way to work as a band, especially when you are not making money. You don't really need the band to get food on the table.
Becoming someone that is serious about music - did it happen for you in an organic way, or was it more of a dream you had?
NILS: That is an interesting question. I think very early I was interested in music. I think when I was around 3 or 4 I listened to AC/DC, Guns N' Roses, and stuff like that, that my brother was listening to. Quite early. I started playing the drums when I was around eight. It all happened with watching Wayne's World: Garth has this drum solo at the music store. Lars Ulrich - he really brought me into playing the drums because he had advertisements in some metal magazines. It was this huge, white Tama set that he had on the recordings of The Black Album. I was totally hooked. and I thought, "I want to be a drummer!" Then I asked my parents if I could take lessons. I think when I was eight, I got lessons. I was totally into Metallica and Maiden and stuff like that when I was really young, so I started playing the drums quite early. But I think I really started to make music when I was around 12 or 13. Put my first punk band together, rehearsing at my parents' place. It all came from one step to another. The first thing was to get a band together and we were really shitty, like I think many young people who have bands are quite shitty in the beginning. A friend of mine that I met at school was like, "don't you want to be in a metal band with me?" This punk band split up and I was a bit tired, I was 16. I got into Cannibal Corpse and extreme black metal stuff. I wanted to play blast beats and double-bass. So this came, and then we met another guy. I ended up being in two different bands. They both were a little bit bigger. They were already playing shows outside of the hometown and having a record out. From that, I think when I was around 20 or something, I realized that it can be a bit more professional than just being at a rehearsal space on weekends, and play as fast as you can. So, I would say it all came naturally for me because I always loved music. I have music in my head the whole day. There is always something going on up here. I was very lucky, meeting the right people that helped me get into a band that was a bit more professional. I got into a doom band, so I had to learn to play very tight and very slow. I was in a very technical hardcore band, and I had to play very fast and technical stuff. So, every little step that I did was good. And then I started singing in a band; I had to train my voice. I always wanted to be a singer, then I became a singer. I think it all was step after step. I ended up where I am now. I am really happy because a lot of things that I dreamed of as a child came true for me. Promote albums, going on tour - that's what I always wanted to do, and I am super happy that I can do this.
You have mentioned that you have been in different bands a few times, so, do you need that variety, or how is it for you?
NILS: I wouldn't really say that I totally need it, but my taste in music varies a lot. The basic love is metal, but I also love punk rock and hardcore stuff. I am more the the melodic side of punk rock, some heavy and death metal stuff, and some doom. I think this is what I listen to the most. But there is also some Indian alternative stuff, some hip hop and rap that I like. I always like to try to do something new. This doesn't mean for me that I have to put out music that tries to touch all those aspects that I like in one band. I am kinda of a purist, also - I like traditional heavy music a lot. I am not so much into this nu metal stuff. There are some good bands there as well, in this modern stuff. There is some great stuff. I would always prefer Slayer over Limp Bizkit and stuff like that. I ended up playing in black metal bands and doom bands and hardcore bands and death metal bands, and it wasn't that I was looking for that - it kinda just happened, I would say. From one band and another and then a person said, "ah do you want to start this project?" or "do you want to help me with this?" I just jumped on board of a lot of different projects. So yeah, I wouldn't say that I am getting bored in bands easily. I really like to stay as long as possible in bands. Ophis is my old death doom band, and I have been there for 10 years; King Apathy was around 7 years. Heretoir will hopefully be for more than 10 years. Heretoir are my best buddies. It is like being with your best friends together and having a good time. This is really what I like the most, having a good time when we play shows. We don't play that much now with Corona, but even before that we played like around ten shows a year or something. So, every show is pretty special.
I had heard that everyone in the band enjoys the performance aspect, so how have you coped during the pandemic?
NILS: We had, I think in 2017, the most active year of the band. I think we played around 70 shows or something. It was insane for us because next to working full-time and stuff. We are lucky that it wasn't from playing 70 shows (and really needing the money of the shows) to nothing. Even before Corona, we decided that we wanted to focus the next years on the record, and not play so much. So, we played the last show in June 2019. I can only speak for myself - I got really active during Corona. I started a record label. I started a new death metal band. I started playing the guitar. I started playing the drums more, and then we recorded the drums for the new Heretoir record in September 2020. So, for me there was a lot of stuff to do. I started writing my master thesis a few months ago. I try to keep myself as busy as possible. There was a lot of stuff apart from the musical aspects that I got to do in my life. I think for the others, some also wrote a master thesis, some are working; there is a lot of stuff going on with everybody. The bass player, Matthius, he is also the guy who wrote all of the King Apathy songs. He has a tonne more projects, and he is always writing and recording music. I think most of us were busy with doing something, using the time as good as possible.
So, what does performance do for you though, when you do perform? Is it an escape or embracing yourself more fully? What is that experience?
NILS: I think speaking for myself, it differs a bit from being the drummer in Heretoir and being, for example, the singer in King Apathy. For me, being a singer in King Apathy was more an emotional aspect than being the drummer in Heretoir. For me it is a bit of both. It is more trying to be as exact and playing as perfect as possible. And trying to give, especially Dave, when you look at videos, I guess you haven't been able to see us live, right, because you are in Canada, and we have never been overseas. Most of the performance is around him. He is the singer, he is getting most of the attention. I like to play as exact as possible so that he can put on a good show for the people, because he really is the emotional guy. He feels every song, and the people feel that he feels it. I am also feeling the songs. I really love to play them. This is for Maximus, the bass player too, I think they are both the same - they are standing on the sides. He really loves and he really lives for those 40 minutes or whatever it is that we play for. People really appreciate that he is always 100% each night. But I would say that is what a Heretoir show looks like.
Why do you think the band has taken a welcoming approach? It is not cliquey - it's basically anyone is accepted, as far as fans.
NILS: I think I can say that because I don't write the music and I am kind of a fan as well. I got into the band years after the band already existed. I think what makes this band liked by a lot of people is that it is modern, but it is also very emotional. It is honest. We don't have a backdrop, big stuff on the stage. It is just us people on the stage, and especially Dave, who is an insanely good singer. He really feels the songs, especially live. That is a point where even if people don't like the music so much, they see it and they see a band that really loves what they are doing. Also, I would say that we try to be as inclusive and as open as possible. It is not like being met on a musical side more, it's more on a personal, private side. When we play live, we try to include everyone so everyone can feel welcome at our shows. To me it's like I don't want to be excluding people from shows, and especially if you are playing more emotional music, you have a lot of people who really have a strong connection to the songs. We try to take the listener seriously, if you know what I mean. Not like putting on a fake show and trying to connect as good as possible. Hope that answered your question?
You are seeing people as people.
NILS: For me it is really easy. I don't care, as long as people aren't assholes. If a person is exclusive, and a person is, for example, a racist, then I don't want the person at my show. But everyone that is open and free to let people be who they want to be, then the person is totally welcome. I really like to spread this message, especially in the metal scene. Just let people be if they are not assholes, if they are not treating people wrong. Just let us be this big metal community, or this family that everyone is talking about. I really love the idea behind it. If we are a family, then we need to take care of each other.
Is there any advice you would like to give your younger self?
NILS: This was something I was thinking about a lot, because when I told you that I started getting drumming lessons, but I also quit after a few months. Then I was 8 or 9, just playing soccer with my friends, playing stuff. On one hand, I think it would have been very cool for me if I had started those lessons and just stayed there. But on the other hand, I kinda like my style of drumming. I mean, I am really limited as a drummer. It is all learnt by myself. So this is where, on one hand, I like it, on the other hand, I could be better as a drummer or as a musician. I am not spiritual and stuff like that, I am a more realistic person. But most of the time when things happened in my life, it led me to a place. Even though some places were shitty, it brought me to where I am now. I am happy with my life, where I am. I think maybe just treat my friends a bit better. I try to treat them well, but I have had times in my life where I have been an asshole. And just try not to be that asshole at the time of my life. I think this would be something. I think that my younger self would say, "fuck you."
I think it is brave of you to talk about your mental health struggles. It can be viewed as weakness, which is wrong. So, thank you for openly talking about it.
NILS: Thank you.
Myself, I often go to music for different moods - for example, when I am excited or upset. Can you give me an example of a song you might go to for a very specific mood?
NILS: Just today I was at the university and I was talking to friends about mood and music, and for me it is like, and you might laugh, when I am really down, what really, really, really cheers me up, and that's The Final Countdown by Europe. Not the song, but the whole album. It is ridiculously good. This is a record where I can be really fucked up and sad, but I put on this album and I am getting happy again. There is one band that I can listen to nearly with all moods that I am in, this is Propagandhi. Especially all the stuff that came after John K. Samson left that band, especially Supporting Cast, which is my all-time favourite album. It has so many different moods. I think Propagandhi just played a few shows in Canada. You should go to a Propagandhi show. I would go if I had the opportunity.
I think I need to listen to them, because I haven't heard too much from them, as sad as that is.
NILS: To me, it is a really, really special band, they have the deepest lyrics. They are political, but they are also super personal. They are insanely technical on a musical level, but they are melodic, they are thrashy. It is insane. I love this band so much. You should check out Supporting Cast by Propagandhi.
Yeah, I will for sure. I have started to check out Emissary of Suffering.
NILS: Nice, this is the band I started with a friend of mine from Gothenburg while we were under the pandemic. Then we started the record label Cold Knife Records with a few friends of mine to get this album out. It is kind of a stupid idea at the moment, to start a vinyl record label. It doesn't have to be clever all the time. It just has to be from the heart. So we wanted to do it, and we just did it.
Was the record label something that was brewing for a while, or did it come together quickly?
NILS: A friend of mine, Juliane, who sings also sings on two of the songs of the Emissary of Suffering album, he just after I asked a few labels that I personally know. They were all like "it is a pandemic!" and they were not so sure if I want to do it. And then he was like, "aww come on, if no one wants to do it, I am going to start a record label and I will release it." I was like, "it sounds like a good - stupid, but good - idea. I will join you." Then another friend of us just jumped on. Then we got it all together and we were really, really happy that we were able to get the record out. I don't know if you or the other readers/listeners know that the whole situation with pressing plants for vinyl is insane at the moment. We have around one year, or one and a half years, to wait to get our release done because of all the major releases that are being put out on vinyl. It is insane.
Thank you for meeting with me today. I am looking forward to the album when it comes out, and I am understanding it will take its time, and that's just fine.
NILS: Thank you so much for the interest in the band. And if we ever going to play in Canada you should come.
Playlist Pick
After interviewing Heretoir, I decided to add the song Inhale to my playlist.

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