
Interview // 2021-08-19
Nechochwen
I was pleased to hear that you guys have a lasting friendship and that you get together every week.
ANDREW D'CAGNA: Yeah, every Monday.
That’s awesome. That's not always the case for bands, so that is great.
ANDREW: It’s true.
So, can you explain the way you guys work together in Nechochwen?
AARON CAREY: Well, like we were saying, we usually get together every Monday night. This has gone on for a long time. I guess we started working together in 2002. We had a band called Angelrust for many years, and a side project called Forest of the Soul, which was mainly acoustic stuff. We worked on one or the other, but mainly it was getting together in a band format and jamming once or twice a week, getting ready for shows and whatever we were going to be recording at the time. Then that band fell through, and when I started writing this stuff that became Nechochwen, we started meeting at his studio. He has had a couple studios over the years, but you have been at this one for what, 11 years?
ANDREW: Fourteen years.
AARON: I just stop by after work and bring whatever ideas I have. He has a really great setup here, where I am spoiled. I don’t really have to demo stuff at home. I am just like, "look, I'm working on this." I set a click track and record some rough dummy tracks. It seems like when I come down the next week, he is like, "hey, I put drums and bass on this, you want to re-record the guitar good?" So I will do that. We work kinda slowly, and sometimes we get sidetracked a lot. So, sometimes we just drink coffee and don’t really do anything productive. Eventually it turns into a record. It's a real loose, hanging out type of thing.
ANDREW: I guess it is a little unorthodox. I don’t want to say lackadaisical, but almost.
AARON: I don’t know why more people don’t do this, especially if you are real young and busy all the time. Probably you gotta compartmentalize your ideas. Usually in a band you get together with four or five people. But since we do everything just us, it's just like hanging out at your friend's house - it is your friend's house. That’s how all of these records have turned out, is just from getting together and having some coffee, and hanging out.
ANDREW: It is like chipping away at a piece of stone for a very long time. Then finally a sculpture comes out of this.
AARON: And there is usually no grand vision of "this is going to turn out like this, and it's going to be about this." It evolves and gets influenced by whatever is going on in our lives. And I am not talking necessarily mundane work, going to the grocery store, everyday type things. But if something new happens, and you take a trip, or something monumental happens in your personal life, especially nature experiences. It seems like we will talk about that for a long time, and then it bleeds into the music.
For sure, I was going to ask about that. I knew you guys were into nature and that anyone that has been out in nature very much has a story of something interesting or notable that has happened. So, is there an experience that comes to mind, as people that have enjoyed nature?
ANDREW: We are constantly reflecting on times that we spend in the woods. Seems like that’s when bigger ideas come about. Didn’t the concept of Nechochwen pretty much come from that?
AARON: It did, yeah. When we were playing in Angelrust, which was melodic death metal, I really enjoyed playing and writing that stuff, but the topics that were really close to my heart I kinda kept aside, kept separate from that. I wanted to do a project that was a little removed from that, and that is how this whole thing started.
Usually during the week, we have separate things going on, but when we have taken time to just hike in the woods, or do a photo shoot, something like that, there is always some interaction with birds, some strange things. I don’t know, you could say coincidental, but it feels spiritual, type of thing. We have a song on the new record that is about that. We have songs about sweat lodge, songs about deer, encounters with deer in nature. Definitely animal- and bird-related, for sure. And a lot of things from reading historical accounts and trying to get immersed in that as much as possible.
I actually had an amazing experience on my way home tonight. Three blue herons were flying in front of me, and then they landed in my yard, so it was pretty amazing. I saw the wingspan and I thought, "What is that?"
AARON: Wow! Those things are huge. You may find some kind of connection with something else going on in your life with threes or something.
When you are composing music, do you find ideas are coming to you all the time, or are there specific, concentrated time?
ANDREW: I think that's part of the reason why we take the time that we do. There's times where Aaron will come in and he's very inspired. He’s got a good chunk of music already in his head and we build on that, and sometimes the song comes together fairly quickly. But then there's times when we still get together weekly and we say, "what do we have to work on?" and "well, I don’t really have anything." And that’s okay. We recognize that you can’t force inspiration. It comes when it comes, and you just kinda have to wait for it to come. We recognize it when it's there, and we ride that wave when it's there. It's a weird thing. I think every musician wishes that they could conjure it up on command and will it into existence when they need it, because a lot of times you really need to write a song, or come up with some material, and if it’s not there, it's just not there. Because we write the way we do and it's such a collaborative thing, and it's such a - I don’t want to say an instantaneous thing, but there's very few preconceived notions in this music, that it's all kind of born very spontaneously. I think that's why it takes so long. But at the end of the day, there is no regrets in the music. There's no "oh, we rushed this" or "we put this on here just because we were forced to." We never work with any deadlines and I think that that's a liberty that a lot of bands are not afforded. And to us I think it pays off.
AARON: Yeah. Bindrune has been very gracious about that; "just do what you guys do. It doesn’t matter how long it takes." We definitely try for quality over quantity. But I feel like I'm slowing down a little bit. The last couple of years, I have been really distracted with work and just other irons in the fire - it's life. I need to get back to that place, and I will. One thing that is kind of a hang up for me, as far as that, is that I have a hard time moving on to the next thing, until the thing that I just did is out there. We are finalizing the new record right now. Where we are at, everything is good to go, just send it off to the plant. I am hearing about really long waits for vinyl right now, like nine month waits and stuff like that. I am hoping that is not the case. We will have some teaser things out, or single, a song, video, something like that before long. I have a hard time with, "okay, time for the new thing" until this thing's completed, and I need to get over that. Maybe once it is sent off and I'll check that box.
ANDREW: I think that's a natural thing.
So, which way did you end up going for this album, because I know there was an interview where you were talking about how you had some acoustic material you were working on, as well as some more heavy material? You were working on both - which direction did you end up finalizing?
AARON: Well, for this record we went the heavy route. It's definitely the heaviest. We gradually injected more metal into each album as we have gone, with the exception of Ancient Pulse, which was a compilation. But I would say this has more even than Heart of Akamon. It doesn’t mean it's all blasting all the way through, but it's definitely more metal, and there is more traditional metal elements, not just black metal. Some doom metal, some old school death metal. The acoustic material, some of it has been sitting, waiting for a home. It’s good stuff, not like reject material, just something that did not thematically fit with the other records that we had done. The stuff is not getting any younger, so we have a loose compilation of all that stuff, we just need to put the finishing touches on that. That will probably be the next thing in line. That is another thing that I want to get, "okay, this is out there. Time to focus on something totally new."
ANDREW: I think the new record is everything that we have always done, just taken up several notches, not just one notch. The black metal is the most scathing, extreme black metal that we've ever done. The death metal moments - which were very few, up until now - are there, and the organic moments and the more progressive moments are the most progressive that we've ever explored yet. It's a natural progression. Well, it's the most "this" that we have ever done, but I just think it's amped up several notches. It's almost like we skipped over an album and it's the album after that.
AARON: That's a good way to put it. I think there is a lot of influences on this one, kinda nods to bands that we grew up with and respect from way back. There's still elements we hear, those guys listened to Eucharist, they listened to Metallica, Rotting Christ - whoever it is.
I am looking forward to it. It sounding like something special. What would you say is your favourite part, then - is it the creation, or presenting it?
AARON: That is a good question. For me, I have to say the former. I really like getting these progress reports of, "okay, we're like three songs into the album, and they're not mixed yet." Driving around, listening to them, and formulating - this needs something over top, or this would sound really great at this part. I love that - it keeps me artistically fulfilled. And then, once that is completed, it's like, "here you go. I've listened to this a million times, have fun!" And then I'm like, where do I go now? What direction do I take? So, I love seeing it completed because it would be a huge bummer if you worked that much and you never released it.
And when you stumble upon some personal elements within the lyrics or just the feel of the music, you're working through something. You are either reliving an experience you had, or you work through a problem, thoughts about things, whatever and that's like a really powerful spiritual thing. Then, later on when you listen to the songs you don’t have quite as raw an experience with them. You listen to it as a song, but the newness of it is worn off - it's not as impactful as when you first came up with this part and it's like, "wow! That sounds really good. I like how it turned out".
ANDREW: Sure. It's like anything else, the more you see it, the more you hear it, the more you're used to it, yes, it's less exciting every time, right? But the first time, and first few times, when you are building it, it is super impactful to you. It is a means to an end, but I am with you - I'm in love with both parts of the process, for sure, but if I had to choose one lover in that scenario, I would choose the creation process over the presentation process, basically for the same reason. The whole sculpting, the whole building of the music is what I get the most fulfillment out of.
I know you are both musicians of several instruments and vocals, is anyone in your family musical or did someone else leave their musical imprint on you or how do you feel like you came to music?
ANDREW: No, there's no musicians in my family whatsoever. None.
AARON: I had heard that both of my grandmothers played the guitar in some form. I don’t know what skill level they were. I never heard them play. I have my grandmother’s guitar from 1937; I don’t know if she ever played it. I think my other grandmother played the steel guitar; never heard her play. Nobody else does anything, except my son - he plays drums - but no one before directly influenced me. I heard my granddad play the harmonica when I was little, that he played in the Navy. I guess that got me interested - "wow, you could play an instrument."
ANDREW: It was my youngest sister’s boyfriend who introduced me to music, initially because he was the first real musician I ever met. He was a keyboard player and a bass player. This was mid 80's, and he would bring over his keyboard and he'd put the headphones on my head, and he would play the intro to Jump from Van Halen. I was blown away that I'm sitting in a room with somebody that's playing music. That was the first real exposure that I had to live music and knowing someone who could play an instrument, so it was like mind-blowing. But, just like you, I guess I should probably give my grandmother credit, because I remember finding my grandmother’s old guitar in a closet. It had one string on it. That was technically the first stringed instrument that I ever picked up and plucked, but I never ever remember anybody in my family ever mentioning my grandmother playing guitar, so I don’t know if it was something that she just bought on a whim and never ever played, but technically, I owe her that.
AARON: Yeah, it's good to have something to mess around on, even if it only has one string.
You both live music outside of the band. Aaron, you teach music, and Andrew, you have a recording studio. You have been involved in bands together and separately from each other as well so what is it like to live and breath music all the time?
ANDREW: I think you live and breath music a little bit more than I do.
AARON: Yeah, I teach in several places. I teach at a private college and music studios, and since the pandemic I have been doing the Zoom teaching as well, that's become a thing. And I play classical and finger-style guitar gigs all the time for dinners and weddings and such. So yeah, I'm doing this full time. It feels great! I remember doing tonnes of jobs that I didn’t really want to be doing. I liked getting the paycheck, but I don’t want to do this forever. Doesn’t really get boring; people are always bringing different music to you and sometimes you become a little bit of a sounding board (I wouldn’t say a therapist, but something along those lines). People after a while feel like they can open up to you, and you can take a half-hour out of your day and talk about music and whatever else. I like being that little part of that role in their lives. It feels great! I really don’t want to do anything else.
ANDREW: Even though I have a studio... I used to record local bands for years and years and years, and just, the older I got the more I wanted the free time and not to have to stare at a screen, spending my summers staring at a computer screen, recording somebody else’s music instead of enjoying the summer. So, I don’t really do that anymore. I record pretty actively, still, but only if it's something that I am intimately involved in. The studio has never been my bread and butter. It has never been my bill-paying mechanism. I do what I love, and I love what I do, and I'm not going to discredit that. I have worked at a tattoo shop for almost 20 years, and I do love that. That is my day job, as it were. I guess I kind of balance it out, where you live and breath music a little bit more as far as your career is concerned, I'm more in active bands that are gigging all the time.
AARON: You're also full-time around art, it's just not aural, it's visual art. So you're full-time in the arts.
ANDREW: Yes, absolutely. My environment is constantly inspiring, one way or the other. As far as living and breathing music, it not necessarily my career as much as it is yours.
Is there anywhere that I can see the artwork that you have done, like the tattoos?
ANDREW: Yeah, if you go to Hot Rod Tattooing in Martins Ferry, Ohio, that is my tattoo shop. We have a tonne of insanely-talented artists.
Your music can be described as beautiful, even though it has a harshness and aggression to it. Do you remember how or when you found the beauty in aggressive music?
AARON: That is a great question. I mean there is like pockets of it everywhere. Some people might think it's kind of blasphemous for me to say, but when I got in to Blessed Are The Sick by Morbid Angel. There is some beautiful music on that album. It is like, super brutal death metal album, but there is some awesome guitar on there. The organ stuff on there. I think that was probably the first thing for me that set them apart form Napalm Death or some grindier bands, really sick ugly death metal bands was that album. Then when I heard the first Anathema album, Serenades, and Solar Lovers by Celestial Season, My Dying Bride... Doom stuff really hit me hard in the early 90's, mid 90's. It was just amazing the emotions they could get across in this music, and it's just lumped in with the sickest autopsy type bands, you know? But, at the same time, this has a poetic and beautiful element to it that fully opened my mind to what’s possible in extreme metal.
ANDREW: I don’t think I had the typical musical evolution that a lot of other people in our age demographic did, 'cause a lot of the kids that I went to school with started with lighter rock bands, like Guns 'N Roses, and more mainstream stuff. The first metal band that I heard was Iron Maiden, and as soon as I heard Iron Maiden I fell in love. It wasn’t long after that, it was circumstantially that I heard thrash, like Metallica and all these other thrash bands. From that point, I became kind of obsessed with whatever was the most extreme. I went through the grindcore phase and the death metal phase, and the second wave of black metal, but especially now in my older age I realize, basically if it doesn’t have any melody to it, then I really don’t listen to it anymore. There are tonnes of bands that you could consider extreme, like all the Swedish melodic death metal bands - they were super extreme and they were super melodic at the same time. So, I always gravitated towards the melody in music, and to me that’s where the really beauty lies.
AARON: Melody and harmony, you mentioned Iron Maiden. That’s what got me. Sea of Madness, Where Eagles Dare - anything that had those twin guitar and even the three-guitar harmonies, that was earlier than any of the death metal stuff that I heard and definitely beautiful. And you hear threads of it in the Swedish scene stuff. Storm of the Light's Bane has got twin guitar harmonies and stuff. It’s very dark, very cold, evil stuff but very beautiful music all through it too. Huge influences like that.
Can you explain the names you have taken on in this band? So, there is "Nechochwen" and "Pohonasin." What do they mean?
AARON: Nechochwen means "Walks Alone." When I was given that name, I was 14. It was given 'cause I was always doing my own thing. The long haired kid that listened to metal, wore these Carcass shirts and stuff. You are doing your own thing, and you are not like anybody else in the school or anything. So, yeah, I've had that name since the first band I played in, which was called Dethroned. We all had stage names, whatever, I used that. So, that name stuck. I started getting more active with a group of Shawnee and Lenape descendants in Pennsylvania, that was my name cause we all had native names, and so that stuck ever since. When I decided to do a project just based on this stuff, that was the natural thing for me to go with - just use that as the project name.
ANDREW: My pseudonym may be a little too deep for you to understand... Pohanosin roughly translates to "he drums." It’s very simple. But it worked. I never questioned it. He gave it to me, and I accepted it. I love it.
AARON: His ancestry is Irish and Italian. So it's like, "you're the drummer, man!"
So, Aaron, you became very interested in history and indigenous culture as a child. When did you realize you had indigenous ancestry, and who helped you along your journey discovering more about it?
AARON: Yeah, we never talked about that. I had long talks with my grandfather on my mom’s side who's passed now (he's been passed for several years). I had approached him about it. It was my mother who talked to me here and there when I was a kid and I didn’t really pay any attention to it until I was maybe 12 or 13. I got turned onto some historical narratives and stuff, I started asking more questions, "why don’t you ever talk about this?" She was like, "your grandad would know more." So, I started talking to him. He was like, “yeah, when I was growing up that was like the worst thing that you could be." They pretended that there was no connection or anything. Not to talk ill of my area, but there has been some systemic racism of many kinds here. I mean, I'm sure it still exists in some pockets, too. I don’t think he was reprimanded or anything, but yeah, any time when he would talk about he said, "no, we don’t talk about that." But he was enamoured with it himself, and would have lots of kinda stereotypical lndian pictures around. I was like, "tell me more about this." He was like, "you should have talked to some people when he was younger." I had to go into research mode, to find out more about this, because Indians were removed in 1830, 1832 from what’s now West Virginia (it was Virginia at the time). Shawnees were removed to Missouri, and then eventually Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas - depending on the band. And as far as I know everyone that stayed around here spoke English, took jobs like farmers or blacksmiths and just assimilated. And that's, on my mom’s side, what I descended from. My mission has always been to find out more about those people, by connecting with other people that are in the same situation. I think a lot of people in West Virginia, and Appalachia in general, are from the Laurel Highlands of Pennsylvania, as well. So that's where I got the interest and then it kinda branched from, you know, I'm not the only important element, or the most important person here. What can I find out about all of this? Like, how did this culture go from nature-based harmony to modern European-style civilization?
I am glad you are doing that. Did your grandfather get to hear any of Nechochwen?
AARON: No. By the time this had come about, he started to get dementia and he got really weird, for lack of better terms. He changed - it was dementia - it is really sad what it does to people. He did not part on the best of terms with anyone, family, sadly. But we had many good conversations before that about the subject. But no, I mean, I may have mentioned something. He heard me play quite a few times and he'd always say, "you gotta keep doing that. You sound really good, keep doing that." but that was about as far as it got.
You literally had me looking on a map of the geography of the Appalachian area, as well as reading about the history. So, obviously it is a personal journey for you, but is that what you are hoping for listeners - to encourage them to look deeper into the areas they live, and the history?
AARON: The original intent was to connect with other people, but it totally has. We have people write from many many different places, and usually it will be, "I didn’t know anything about this region that you live in, or anything that happened there, or any of these events. You got me really interested in it. Here's something similar that happened in my area," or whatever. I learned from that, and they make a connection, and I think we all reach the same conclusions, eventually. If you were looking that up, Appalachia is big - it's a big region, and I didn’t really realize until maybe two years ago when I saw a defined map of it. I was like, "wow, I thought it was just a little strip." And I always thought we were in the foothills of Appalachia. Naww, we are not really Appalachia, we live 40 miles from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This is almost a suburb, not quite but almost. But no, you look at that map, it's a big oval, big area.
I would say that presenting history in this format - as music - is a lot easier to take, compared to sitting down and trying to read a book, or even watch something or whatever. It is a nice way to present it.
AARON: I appreciate that. I hope we are doing a good job.
I saw a video where you were talking about how you had some heirlooms that were passed down, but you didn’t say what any of them were. Can you share an heirloom that you received or was passed down to you, and the meaning behind it?
AARON: I have several. I was fortunate enough, when I was 14 or 15, I was playing in a death metal band called Dethroned. Our drummer said, "hey, there's this guy that I know of, you should write him. He plays in a death metal band called Rottrevore and he's an Indian. You two could talk - you should write him." Back then you wrote letters and trade tapes and such. So, I started writing to him in 1992. He had a tribal group for a while that’s really fell away over the years, unfortunately. We don’t see each other as often now, but early on he did not know me in person. He sent me an ash bag - at the time I was like, "you gotta be direct, like I don’t understand real cryptic stuff." I got used to that after a while, these cryptic, Yoda-type conversations, you know. "What is this?" And he's like, "well, we'll talk sometime and I'll tell you the meaning behind that." Years passed... These ashes were from fires that continuously - on a molecular level - had ashes that went back thousands of years, they'd just been rejuvenated. Having that in my possession, I fell like has been, I don’t know, kind of a guardian, in a way. Years later, he brought me a proper Shawnee ash bag that I had never seen. It was the old style, it was painted, and he gave that to me with some of the ashes. I think keeping these ashes is almost like a living link to the very, very distant past. So, those are some of the most special items that I have.
ANDREW: You got me thinking, and I don’t know. I don’t really have too many significant things that were passed down to me like that. The only thing that I can think of off the top of my head, and it’s here and it has some relevance, is I had a cousin but I referred to her as my aunt because she was really good friends with my mother. So, everybody in the family called her Aunt Rosie. She was the aunt that would spoil you to death, and you always wanted to spend the weekend at her house because she gave you whatever you wanted. She just treated you like gold. She was super supportive of everything that I've ever done. She was just the kindest, gentlest soul in the world, and I will never ever forget her. She gave me - it was at her house, I became enamoured with it and I asked her for it - of course I was her golden boy so she gave it to me... It used to sit up there on the monitor, that turtle. It’s a little carved turtle, and it's really dark, really well carved out. It had two big fake emeralds for eyes, and one of them fell out a long, long time ago. So, it’s a one-eyed, emerald-eyed turtle, and I love that thing - it's still here. I'm 45; she probably gave that to me when I was like 6 years old or something. So, it’s still here just because it reminds me of her, and it’s a turtle so it kinda has some relevance to Nechochwen, I guess. That’s it, that’s all I got.
So, I often go to music when I am in different moods. For example, when I am excited or upset, can you give me an example of a song that you would go to for a specific mood outside of your catalogue?
AARON: Wow, that shouldn’t be hard to answer and it kinda is.
ANDREW: It’s more recent, but whenever I need to get pumped, if I need to get excited, if I need to get psyched up about something, I am huge fan of the band High Spirits from Chicago. The first song off of the Motivator album, as it is were, Flying High - whenever I listen to that, I'm like, "I'm ready to go, man! I am ready to conquer whatever."
AARON: Yeah, if I need to get pumped it’s For Victory - Bolt Thrower. And if I am working out or something on a bike. I love doomier bands, funeral doom. I don’t go to it as often lately, I would say. I think if I am feeling nostalgic or something, I will go back to some old Floyd records. If I am on a road trip or something, Mercyful Fate - their first two albums. Anathema - that is pretty deep, emotional music, though. If I'm feeling down, I listen to kind of down music, not so much uplifting music like most people probably do.
ANDREW: I tend to get 99.9% of my emotions from Iron Maiden. I think they pretty much provide me with everything that I need, whether it is up or down, angry or sad - whatever - Iron Maiden has it all, for me. At least those first eight albums. I can find whatever I need in those eight albums.
AARON: I listen to Sirius XM a good bit 'cause I have that now. I never turn off Maiden or Sabbath or Dio or the classics. I guess we all kind of stick with the same stuff. They never get old and they get better with age.
ANDREW: They are classics for a reason.
So, this is my last question. What are three things on your bucket list?
ANDREW: Mine are all locations. They're not really achieving anything, they're just going places, I guess. I definitely want to go to Japan. I definitely want to go to Italy. And I definitely want to go to... Angkor Wat in Cambodia. I am just enamoured with ancient historical sites, so I have a short list of those.
AARON: No Egypt?
ANDREW: I mean, yeah, I would love to, but if I had to really narrow it down to three, I would say those three.
AARON: I feel like I just had this thought, not too long ago. Definitely places for me, as well. I would like to see more European countries. I have been to quite a few already, but never to Scandinavia, and not too much into Croatia, Albania, that area. I'd like to check out Greece, for sure. I mean there's a lot of places, but I guess that is one. The bucket list... I don’t know! You got me stumped a little bit here. I am sure later on I will think of a hundred.
I know, I wouldn’t even know my answers to that question.
AARON: I always wanted to write a book. I was telling you recently, I have been working on transcriptions of my own stuff. That was the goal, and it kinda sucks because most people now want a download of, "oh, I just want this one song." They pay the guy five bucks and you download it - I want an actual book with notes. And all these Nechochwen records, I write a synopsis, what the songs are about. I think it’s because, subconsciously, I want to be an author, and I'm not disciplined enough to be one.
ANDREW: I think that's cool though. I wish every band would do that with every album, because any album that I am truly interested in, and I think pretty much anyone could agree, you want to know as much about the story behind the album as possible, right? So many albums are just filled with big thanks lists - I don’t care who you thanking! Tell me what the meaning behind this song is. So, I think it is really cool that you do that.
AARON: Or at least have it available. Anecdotal stuff. I don’t mean necessarily a book that expands on what we are making music about. I guess that's kind of where this came from in the first place with Nechochwen. I was reading all these historical books and stuff, and it's kind of a hobby, going to these places on the weekend and saying this battle happened here, or this person is buried here. Reading this stuff during the week and getting into it - I would like to be in this scene. This author scene is a very obscure field to be in, for the subject matter. I never thought I could hold a candle to any of these authors. Their research is mind-blowing that they do into this stuff. I am just not knowledgeable or disciplined enough, but I think I write well. I have written things for degree programs and things, but I have never centred on the exact thing that I want to do my own book about, so that's why I started working on guitar transcriptions. As far as the third bucket list thing, I don’t know, I don’t really want to jump out of a plane or anything - that's usually what people say. I might do it somewhere down the road... I think I'd like to take a year off and not work. I think I am in a field where you have to keep working until you die, and that’s okay because it's playing music and teaching music. I don’t ever want to stop doing that or retire, but I would like to have a sabbatical of sorts, and just travel around, and not have to worry about a deadline of, "oh I have to be back by next week." That's my 2021 bucket list. It might change.
ANDREW: That sounds amazing!
Photography by Alex Long
Playlist Pick
After interviewing Nechochwen, I decided to add the song The Serpent Tradition to my playlist.

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